what if leftist movements were actually good at recruitment on a large scale the same way that our enemies are

wouldn't that be a thing of beauty

also like yes i know we don't have the same resources like massive media giants regurgitating our every talking point and banning our opposition whenever they speak out of our lines but maybe we could figure out ways to not scare people away when we start talking?

@velexiraptor O man. My fave political theorist wrote a book, and it just outlined all the things and then was like - so how are we gonna fucking solve this?
And ended on that. Still fucked up.

@Cyborgneticz we're really good at instilling existential despair and then implying there's no hope

like the problems are hard and we can't just lie about how to fix the world the way the right does, but that's actively hurting the struggle to find solutions?

@velexiraptor Completely! If there is no hope, why should we work to make things better?

@Cyborgneticz and not to perpetuate the above problem i think step 1 is figuring out the issues ppl have on face with us and then... avoiding those until they've already heard our pitch

like, hey, want a world that you don't have to struggle constantly to survive in? want to be able to relax without constant existential dread? try the left! we'll advocate for shorter working hours, and cheaper healthcare/tuition!

then bring out the guillotines and hammers and sickles later

@velexiraptor ohoh you'd like what I just read - 'In the Ruins of Neoliberalism' by Wendy Brown.
A big issue, in my mind, is a lack of Actual conversation. Like I've had students change their politics, but that is by having extended long conversations and sharing information. Unlearning is fucking hard.

The right is much better at slogans and shit and by appealing to this nihilistic politics of revenge they are going to always be better at getting people who feel like something has been stolen

@Cyborgneticz @velexiraptor agree on the "is hard ".
The right are brilliant at slogans, because they lie, or talk nonsense. The message is a distraction. "Give us all ur power, and we'll make you feel better by giving you a TV bigger than ur wall!"

It's hard to compete with lies, especially since our messages are more like "lots of bad things are happening, but if we cooperate and trust each other we can maybe make it a little less bad, I think, but also you'll need a bit of conviction, so it's probably best if you think this through and come to your own conclusions."

I kinda like our message, but it's just... not as flashy. I don't think it should be.

@panina @velexiraptor I think if we did something analogous to town halls that could be helpful

@Cyborgneticz @panina 100%

this also comes from kinda how i feel we should focus on local municipal issues, cuz that's the stuff it's possible to show up at and pressure - but also, getting financially stable ppl to put resources into people's actual pockets, cuz that's how to actively change stuff at a distance

@velexiraptor the problem is we fucking love to attack leftist entryists for not being woke or dialectical or whatever and find excuses to cancel them for being problematic.

some of the best work in entryism right now is being done by chapo trap house and contrapoints, and also look at how people wont shut the fuck up about how much they hate them for whatever reason and look for excuses to take basic/entry/101/newbie things they/their fans do in the worst faith possible as evidence they're like, really bad

anyone reading this going "but! but!" as if these are special exceptions, the tea is if it wasn't them it'd be someone else and it'd be the same shit

@anna i think there's a difference between holding ppl accountable and canceling them, and we've gotta lean waaay on the former cuz this shit is important and ppl also hate us cuz they think we'll cancel them as soon as they start talking which tbh is a valid critique

@anna but also there's a difference between how we need to treat newbies w kid gloves and how we need to hold public figures in the movement accountable; if ppl think it's ok to rise to the top without questioning the systemic bigotry that we're all instilled with that's how you get class reductive leftists and we all know where that leads

it's a fine line that we aren't even close to establishing, and we don't know how to handle it in ways that don't make us look awful to everyone else

leftist recruitment, problematic behavior, usa shooting 

leftist recruitment, problematic behavior, usa shooting 

leftist recruitment, problematic behavior, usa shooting 

leftist recruitment, problematic behavior, usa shooting 

leftist recruitment, problematic behavior, usa shooting 

leftist recruitment, problematic behavior, usa shooting 

leftist recruitment, problematic behavior, usa shooting 

leftist recruitment, problematic behavior, usa shooting 

@velexiraptor what we dont have rn is an alternative to The Fucking Discourse, same shit since 2012 (or so) where everyone who does something deemed ~PROBLEMATIC~ is thrown in the shitlord bin and treated the same as bigots or monsters, and there are no avenues for communicating criticism and boundaries in a healthy and positive way because that's seen as collaboration

this leads to mutated, fucked up monsters like stupidpol who are the absolute worst but you can see a direct line between fucking cancellation culture nonsense and a bunch of leftist edgelords trying to skip over dealing with it by declaring it all "idpol"

@velexiraptor which then ALSO leads to monstrous assholes like peter coffin who use this thing everyone knows as a problem as an excuse to get out of culpability for their abuse and just aghhhhhhhhhhh i hate everyone burn everything down :acab:

@anna the best thing for me re. this, tbh? leaving twitter and reddit

@velexiraptor yeah big same. like its a big part of why i run witches is i want a space that doesnt fuck up on this shit. maybe do some entryism with people who like witch things but are total libs otherwise. give people space to improve but dont waste time with people unwilling to do so/concern trolling. all the shit im frusturated with other spaces not doing

@velexiraptor i think sometimes in leftist spaces there’s an utter refusal to consider how non-leftists will receive our messages in favor of shutting those concerns down as tone policing. like it’s one thing to say ‘don’t tell people not to be angry on their personal social media accounts’ but if you’re going to try to convince someone of something, and you’re not taking into account how that person is actually going to *receive* your message... what’s the point
@velexiraptor like hey there’s psychological research about how to convince people, including that putting them on the defensive makes them less likely to believe you. what if we actually used that instead of just Being Right at them and hoping that the power of our correctness changes their minds
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