@karasu 3 dead white dudes cannot convince me to vote for an almost dead white dude rapist.

@AshleyStoleYourGF Them being old/dead and white doesn't mean that what they say holds no value though, does it? Marx and Chomsky are both very very important to leftism, and Lenin, while an authoritarian shithead, makes this point pretty well I think.

Also, both Biden and Trump are almost dead, white, and rapists, but Biden has a good chance of implementing public option healthcare, and Trump has a good chance of... doing what he's been doing for the past 4 years. Both suck shit but Trump sucks more shit.

@karasu the kids that biden put in cages wouldn't vote for biden, so i won't

@anna Do you recognize that, despite how shitty and horrible a person Biden is, his presidency would be at least slightly better than Trump's?

@karasu no, because he wouldn't. he was half of the obama/biden administration and obama still holds the record on deportations

@karasu never mind being a rapist, writing the crime bill, complicit in nominating conservative supreme court judges (and sandbagging anita hill), being a segregationist, anti-gay, and wanting all of us to die before stopping suckling on the teat of the private health care industry

@anna but you have to admit, with biden we have at least a slight chance of a public healthcare option, which would bring about immediate material benefits to millions of americans, right? So a vote for biden, as bad as it would feel, would still be the right choice, because not voting is just a passive vote for whoever ends up winning

@Adlasta There are a lot of Bernie-or-busters on here, and I want to remind everyone that, if you're a consequentialist, there's basically no argument for not voting for Biden, now that Bernie's dropped out

@karasu Bernie didn't drop out, he suspended his campaign. He explicitly said in his suspension video he intends to stay on the ballot to accrue delegates. This would allow him to alter the DNC's platform a bit more than they did last time.

If you care about consequences there's no argument for voting for Biden considering Bernie can still gain delegates.

@Adlasta I'm talking about the general election. If Bernie wins the primaries after all, that would be incredible, and I fully support voting for him there, but it seems pretty unlikely at this point.

@karasu And if you mean in a general, you're ignoring the fact that any votes for Biden will be used by the pundit class for justifying using the same anti-democratic techniques and running the same pro-rape centrist type candidate again. No one is going to know you did it because you held your nose or picked a lesser evil. Nor will they care, they will use your vote as justification for moving even farther right next time.

So, again, if you care about consequences you will vote for Bernie or no one at all

@Adlasta That would be a good argument if liberals were smart enough to realize they're being held hostage, but no matter what, if biden wins, the narrative will be "haha I guess bernie's not the only one who can beat trump" and if trump wins the narrative will be "fuck all these bernie bros, its their fault he lost"

@Adlasta There are no good options, but fuck optics, if a biden presidency will bring about positive material change (like a public option, which bernie pushed him into supporting and which, if he follows through on it, would be an affirmation of leftist values), then we have to grit our teeth and vote for biden.

@karasu If that was a possible outcome it would be a good option.

But you're engaging mostly in desperate fantasy, which is understandable considering facing the actual reality is much more terrifying.

@karasu And besides, what is more Ursula K. Leguin short story than "I supported the rapist because it benefited me"

If that's the role you want to play in history I cannot stop you but It's definitely not the role I want to play

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