@anna

Marco Rubio should have to register as a SO for the public erections murdering Latinx gives him.

@anna I just saw a ~cool video~ of a humanitarian aid truck being run down by soldiers and then executing the driver.

I'm not sure at this point if we're supposed to piss off and not get involved or if we should be very worried about the internal affairs of Venezuela.

@feld the "humanitarian aid" is how the US smuggles weapons and shit to the fascist groups they're propping up

@anna so what do we call the process by which we provide them with medical supplies and food and clean water? Because that's the part that sane people support.

@feld the process is called "we stop fucking installing fascist governments in south american or any countries"

@anna are you proposing that we stop giving them any aid at all and just ignore the situation entirely?
@anna that's not entirely true. Venezuela has been in decline for a long time because their oil quality has gone to shit and the world's refineries have chosen to source their crude elsewhere because it's more suitable for refining into the end products that are in high demand. They were the gem of South America until this went to shit. They were taking in Columbian immigrants and giving them free healthcare and all sorts of stuff in their glory days. Their government just failed to diversify their industry and everything has been collapsing.

Has the US been involved in some affairs that has had a negative impact on their economy? Yes, unquestionably (including sanctions). But that doesn't mean we're solely to blame.

If we turn a blind eye to South America and let their countries crumble do you not think this will cause a huge influx of refugees?

There is a benefit to improving governments and living conditions of countries all around the world. I am *not* saying we should directly be involved in or support violence. I'm just saying that if half our stupid country thinks there's a "crisis" at our southern border now, what would they think if they saw a real crisis resulting from South America being reduced to rubble?

@feld gas prices have been low for the past few years entirely because OPEC wanted to put the thumbscrews to venezuela for using their oil money to do good by their people and refusing to let exxon move in

@anna Gas prices are low because the USA heavily subsidizes oil

Don't blame OPEC here. If we had zero subsidies on gas it would be unaffordable for people to commute to work.

@feld the USA is part of OPEC lmaoooooooooooooooo

and yeah idk maybe there should be something like. oh hmm. whats it called. like imagine if there was some vehicle on rails that went to particular destinations regularly and you could just like, show up and ride one for cheap or free instead of having to rely on expensive and wasteful automobiles fuck what are those called its on the tip of my tongue 🛤️

@anna USA is NOT part of OPEC. You've just abolished the validity of everything you've said by getting even this simple fact wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC#Current_member_countries

I don't disagree that we need public transport badly. I'm still pissed that Walker turned down our funding that would have provided modern rail between Chicago and Wisconsin...

Why do some people constantly attack those on their side because they don't agree with everything they say? I'm not some right wing MAGA troll or a Libertarian moron. I am voting with you in every election.

@feld lmao shut the fuck up lib sorry for not remembering that america is angsty because for once they're not involved in an international cartel

@anna how many other things did you say to me that were also factually incorrect because you couldn't do 30 seconds of research?
@anna You're not exactly batting 1000 now are you? I'm not sure I should take anything you say at face value.

@rin is there a MRF that can add "[citation needed]" to everything a user says? I'd like to apply that to this user's messages on my server.

@feld lmao typical lib bootlicker focuses on a small thing that isnt even central to a leftist's point because your head would fucking explode if you ever stopped licking boots to make an honest arugment for once in your sniveling life

@anna how can I have an honest argument with someone who argues dishonestly to try to make their point and "own" the other person in the discourse?

@feld the only thing the us not being part of OPEC changes about what i was saying is that its not just the US fucking with venezuela, it is also other countries who are deeply invested in the hegemony fucking with venezuela

@feld @anna

Pretty funny to imply we actually care about giving Venezuelans aid when we're also applying sanctions and preventing the government from importing food and medicine by holding its gold hostage, and continually threatening invasion.

Think about the logic of simultaneously applying sanctions and providing "aid" How gullible are you? reuters.com/article/us-venezue

@jonkroe @anna this is only one piece to a very large puzzle. It's an important piece, but have you researched why there are sanctions in the first place?

@feld @jonkroe because the US doesn't like socialism because it's a threat to their hegemony, that's why there are sanctions in the first place

@anna @jonkroe That's patently false, don't play that shit. There are plenty of socialist countries we play nice with.
@anna @jonkroe Vietnam who is now building cars that will be sold in the USA?

India?

"We, the people of India, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a Sovereign Socialist Secular Democratic Republic and to secure to all its citizens..."

@feld @jonkroe @anna neither of these countries are socialist. And the US has a decades long history of starting wars or doing regime change wherever there is any form of socialism. Like Korea, Vietnam, Chile, Guatemala, Cuba, I could go on.

@feld @jonkroe @anna where is India in your list? And as far as I know, Vietnam hasn't been socialist in a long time, even if they call themselves socialist.

On the other hand, are you going to tell me the US has good relations with Cuba or China? Do you know about bay of pigs?

@feld @anna sounds like you are not gullible but in fact a disingenuous shill who thinks simultaneously applying sanctions and providing highly politicized aid to Venezuela in cooperation with factions openly asking for foreign military intervention and a coup from their military makes any sense as honest "humanitarian" concern.

Fuck off imperialist dog

@jonkroe @anna why do you have to devolve to insults when your ideas get even the slightest bit of challenge? Why not provide facts and sources in detail which refute anything I say?

Or are you just lazy?

This "trust me I know what I'm saying" attitude is not helping your cause.

@feld @jonkroe lmfao at the implication that you're any sort of challenge

@feld @anna tell me you big brained genius why the fuck we should believe any bromides about humanitarian concern when at the same time the Venezualan government is being prevented from buying imports?

When the same US government providing such helpful aid is also continually threatening invasion?

When John Bolton was carrying a note book with "5000 US troops" written on it?

When in 2017 Trump was wondering why we weren't invading Venezuela for oil? vox.com/world/2019/2/20/182333

@jonkroe @anna I can't comment on the situation with the sanctions because I have not thoroughly investigated which laws they're breaking that would cause us to actually employ the sanctions.

The rest is simply deplorable. We should not send troops and we should not go after their oil. Especially because we don't fucking need any more oil. The world can cease oil production TODAY and it would be fine. Because if we even try to use all the oil we've already harvested we're going to ensure we kill ourselves and all life on this planet. It's simply too much carbon.

@feld @jonkroe @anna
why don't YOU provide facts and sources in detail which refute anything they say?

Or are you just lazy?

This "trust me I know what I'm saying" attitude is not helping your cause

@larrydavis The onus of proof falls squarely on the shoulders of the person making the claim. You don't get to change the rules.
@larrydavis did you fail out of community college? why do you think in 2019 you get to change the rules of what is acceptable in society? because you're lazy? Either provide the facts and sources or STFU. Until then I'm going to keep saying "prove it".

@jonkroe @feld @anna

its the US foreign policy version of 'Stop hitting yourself! Stop hitting yourself!'

@feld @anna

Like w Yemen n Saudi Arabia u mean? Seems like that’s what we do best when the mood fits

@anna I'm so happy this person self identifies as Igor, famously submissive evil henchman

@feld @anna

* the UN and Red Cross denounced the US politicizing aid
* the Red Cross already operates in Venezuela with consent of the government
* alledgedly a plane with weapons turned out to be smuggling weapons.
* One of the people in charge, Elliot Abrams was involved in regime change, and was even convicted for withholding information from congress.
* As if it's not enough, John Bolton openly talked about taking the oil.

The media does not report this, of course. mastodon.nl/web/statuses/10164

@jasper @feld ah yeah elliot abrams, a total fucking monster, who has been doing gruesome shit to south america since the 80s, is pretty much why shit is the way it is but yeah the US totally has altruistic reasons to send """humanitarian aid""" :rolleyes:

@feld @anna venezuela is already accepting humanitarian aid from other countries, just not USAID because they correctly identify it as a cover for regime change machinations

@feld @anna What I enjoy so much about this debates in the west is how self-centered they are and how little they care about the actual country in the question. What you should be interested in is peace, long-term stability and non-violent arbitration between the opposition and the government (of dubious legal status). What you do instead is projecting own internal politics onto both groups and fighting it out by proxy. Every take I read is about the US and what they do, almost none are about what actually goes on there.

@pony @feld lmao "the opposition" are fascists you fucking bootlicker

@anna @feld i'm always pleased to see some nuanced approach to politics.

@pony @feld the fashes trying to get control of venezuela sure arent nuranced

@anna @feld every coup is unique. the one in which the ruling party lost parliamentary elections, so they replaced the supreme court during their lame duck period, disbanded the newly elected body through it and tried to draft a new constitution is a trick that wasn't tried before.
@anna @feld i'm not aware of anyone else doing that. most creative approach to supreme (or constitutional, as we call it here) court rulings i am aware of is poland few years ago, where its findings are legally binding from the day they are published as a law, so the (right wing, kinda) government simply decided not to publish them. people there spent more than a year protesting that, don't remember ever seeing it in any US media. why...
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